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LotR/Tolkien Frequently Asked Questions spoilers

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Unregistered(d)

About the FOTR Extended DVD

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Posts: 0

(26/09/2003 15:34:01)

Hello! I have a question about the FOTR Extended DVD. Thought to post it in here cause I didn't want to start a new subject.
In a place called War of the Ring there is a Legolas/Orlando clip and it says it's from the Extended dvd. The clip has for example Legolas standing in the boat and Aragorn and Boromir making fun of him. I have the Extended dvd, but I just can't find the clip anywhere. Does anyone know what clip I mean and where it is?

Thanks for help!

"Beginnig to suspect that all that Elvish poetry about the glory of warrior-bonds between men just big cover-up illicit spanking games." -The Very Secret Diaries

Dairwendan

Legolas and other Legolas and Elbereth

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Posts: 59

(15/10/2003 07:12:33)

Hi,
I've read The Hobbit, and LOTR 1,2, and 3, but as for the other books, I've only read The Lost Tales vol. 2, because I'm getting them from the library and as you can imagine, everything Tolkein has been checked out continuosly since Fellowship hit the screen! *LOL*

So, I need to ask, are Legolas who leads the elves from Gondolin and Legolas Thranduilion, two different characters?

If so, are they related? And, if so, what other books (beside LOTR) does Legolas Thranduilion appear in?

Is Thranduil in any other books, beside The Hobbit? Would Legolas have been born before or after the events in The Hobbit?

I read in the appendices at the end of ROTK that Legolas and Gimli remain in middle earth until the death of Aragorn, then sail together. Does this mean that Legolas never takes the throne of Mirkwood?

Is 'Elbereth' a curse? I definitely read where and elf (possibly Legolas, but I can't look it up right now) said it in that manner. And at one point when Frodo and Sam need a password that the orcs would never know, Sam says something like, 'Make it Elbereth, like the elves say. Was Elbereth an elf first and if so what's the story, or where can I read it? And how did it's name become something that elves say?

Thanks for any help!

Dairwendan

"There is one stat of this design left. Orlando Bloom has been charged with returning and finding Sean Bean and having him tattooed as well with it. When I asked if Sean was going to get his, Viggo and Orlando shared a look a smile And yes."
Ain't It Cool News - A Geek's Adventures In Middle-Earth

elentari vana

Re: Legolas and other Legolas and Elbereth

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Posts: 1937

(16/10/2003 03:10:27)

noncommittal

Hello! I'll try to answer your questions, if I can . .

are Legolas who leads the elves from Gondolin and Legolas Thranduilion, two different characters?
Well, that's a very good question! Some people think they are the same person; I, personally, don't. Tolkien doesn't say anything about this, so we'll never know for sure. All I can say is, Tolkien sometimes recycled names (such as Gimli) and I think it is very likely that this was one of these cases. See the thread called "Correct me if I'm wrong about Leggy and kids...please?" for more about this.

If so, are they related? And, if so, what other books (beside LOTR) does Legolas Thranduilion appear in?
Again, it is possible that they are related. Tolkien sometimes named characters after an ancestor of theirs. Legolas Thranduilion appears only in the Lord of the Rings- he's a pretty minor character in any case.

Is Thranduil in any other books, beside The Hobbit?
I believe there is a mention of Thranduil in the Unfinished Tales, in the "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" section.

Would Legolas have been born before or after the events in The Hobbit?
Legolas was born long before The Hobbit. At the time of LoTR, he is probably over two thousand years old, while The Hobbit took place only about seventy or eighty years before.

I read in the appendices at the end of ROTK that Legolas and Gimli remain in middle earth until the death of Aragorn, then sail together. Does this mean that Legolas never takes the throne of Mirkwood?
We don't really know what Legolas does in the time between the end of the Third Age and when he departed for Aman; there are approximately 120 years there. He spent some of that time travelling with Gimli, but apart from that, I don't remember any mention of him.

Is 'Elbereth' a curse? Was Elbereth an elf first and if so what's the story, or where can I read it?
Elbereth literally means "Queen of the Stars" and is another name for Varda, one of the Valier and the "mother goddess" figure in Tolkien's mythology. You can read about her and the other Valar in the Book of Lost Tales 1 and the Silmarillion.

And how did it's name become something that elves say?
It's like a prayer, or as close as Tolkien got to solid religion in Middle-earth. The Elves in Rivendell sing a hymn to Elbereth in the Fellowship of the Ring:
A Elbereth Gilthoniel,
silivren penna mriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-driel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, s nef aearon!
In The Two Towers, Sam invokes the name of Elbereth in the darkness of Cirith Ungol:
A Elbereth Gilthoniel o menel palan-diriel, le nallon
s di-nguruthos! A tiro nin, Fanuilos!

I hope that was helpful. (Hope I got it all straight!

)

Vana

Dairwendan

Re: Legolas and other Legolas and Elbereth

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Posts: 59

(17/10/2003 05:52:42)

Immensely helpful! Thank you so much!
Dairwendan

"There is one stat of this design left. Orlando Bloom has been charged with returning and finding Sean Bean and having him tattooed as well with it. When I asked if Sean was going to get his, Viggo and Orlando shared a look a smile And yes."
Ain't It Cool News - A Geek's Adventures In Middle-Earth

Alcbelethiel

Re: Legolas and other Legolas and Elbereth

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Posts: 5255

(17/10/2003 23:30:19)

Bloomite

In the beginning of Frodo and Sam's journey to Bree, Gandalf transports them to a forest. Is this the Old Forest, where Tom Bombadil and Goldberry lives?

elentari vana

Re: Legolas and other Legolas and Elbereth

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Posts: 1937

(30/10/2003 01:21:07)

noncommittal

Not sure I know what you're talking about

When does this happen?

Alcbelethiel

Re: Legolas and other Legolas and Elbereth

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Posts: 5255

(30/10/2003 23:01:25)

Bloomite

In FOTR (the movie). At the very beginning of their "little stroll" to Mordor.

elentari vana

Old Forest?

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Posts: 1937

(08/11/2003 21:47:21)

noncommittal

Oh, the movie. I see now.

This isn't the Old Forest. If I'm thinkiing of the same part as you, this is before the Nazgul chase them to the Brandywine River. So this would have to be some other forest that's not on the map, located somewhere in the Eastfarthing of the Shire.

If you look at the map in the front of the Lord of the Rings books (the one with the inset of the Shire), you can see where the Old Forest is located. (There's actually a better one at the Encyclopedia of Arda, under "Buckland"

) It's on the eastern border of Buckland, and the Bucklebury Ferry would lead them right to the middle of it. In the movie, they bypass this part and end up at Bree right away, thus conveniently passing over Bombadil and Goldberry, Old Man Willow, and the Barrowdowns, thus making Vana very very sad for having missed her favourite part.

Vana

GolfingSheElf

Re: Old Forest?

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Posts: 3070

(06/01/2004 05:42:55)

Proud Oldie

Who is Eomer mourning for in this picture:

(image has been scaled down)

I know it wasn't in the movies, but I have seen this in previews or something... I don't know exactly who it is, it's been a while since I read the book so I don't know. He/she is blonde, so that narrows it down a bit. I can only think of Theoden or Eowyn, only Eowyn didn't die...

Help please!

elentari vana

Re: Old Forest?

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Posts: 1937

(06/01/2004 13:48:17)

noncommittal

You can't really tell from the picture (go here to see it since it doesn't show here), but I think it is Eowyn.

If you remember from the books, after Eowyn slays the Witch-King, she collapses because of the wounds she has sustained (her arm being crushed by a blow from his sword) and the evil touch of the Nazgul. Eomer sees her and thinks she's dead, so she is carried up to Minas Tirith. On the way, Imrahil of Dol Amroth sees her and somehow knows she's not dead, so she's sent to the Houses of Healing, where she is later healed by Aragorn and meets Faramir . . and you know what happens next

Vana

elentari vana

FAQ

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Posts: 1937

(14/01/2004 23:23:03)

noncommittal

from BeccaBo:
I was wondering if anyone knows if Legolas and Aragorn knew each other before the fellowship was formed. He seemed to when he announced that Strider was really Aragorn.

Yes, Aragorn and Legolas would probably have known each other- at any rate, Legolas definitely knew who Aragorn was. To go back in time a little, remember that after Gandalf discovered that Bilbo's "magic ring" from The Hobbit was really the One Ring, he called up Aragorn and together they went hunting for Gollum, who was the only other one who would know that Bilbo (and then Frodo) had the Ring. They feared that he would tell Sauron where the Ring was.

Eventually they captured him and took him to Mirkwood, where he was placed under the care of the Elves there (presumably under Thranduil, Legolas' father, if he still ruled there). However, Gollum escaped from Mirkwood. Legolas was sent to Rivendell to tell Elrond of Gollum's escape. Therefore, he must have known in some capacity who Aragorn was, though I don't think that specific line ("This is Aragorn, son of Arathorn. You owe him your allegiance.") was in the book.

Plus, Elves don't really miss much, and Legolas had been around for a while, so if the Elves of Mirkwood hadn't been totally isolated during the past 87 years, my guess is that they had it pretty much all figured out. The people who probably wouldn't know about Aragorn are Men (Aragorn's mother had fled to Rivendell so they wouldn't find out, and they're pretty inward looking), and Hobbits and Dwarves (who didn't really care).

Hope that answered your question

Vana

Unregistered(d)

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 0

(15/01/2004 00:47:35)

Thanks Vana!

Sorry that I put my question in the wrong place to begin with! I'll get the hang of this eventually!!

Follow up to that question: Did Legolas come to Rivendel to tell them about Gollum before Elrond summoned everyone there about the ring? I was under the impression that Legolas was there for the same reason Gimli, Boromir, and the others were there??

MellieM42

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 9122

(15/01/2004 03:03:49)

More English than a full sunday lunch
with Yorkshire puddings

My reading of the text was that Legolas did come to Rivendell as a messenger from his father to tell them about Gollum's escape/capture, and it just so happened to be the same time as Elrond called together the Council. It is sort of ambiguous.

elentari vana

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 1937

(17/01/2004 02:17:47)

noncommittal

Did Legolas come to Rivendell to tell them about Gollum before Elrond summoned everyone there about the ring?

I agree with Mellie that it was kind of a random happenstance that they were all there at the same time. It's fun how things work out that way sometimes.

I was under the impression that Legolas was there for the same reason Gimli, Boromir, and the others were there??

Well. They were all there for different reasons.
Legolas was sent from Mirkwood to warn Elrond of Gollum's escape.
Boromir had a dream, along with his brother Faramir, and heard this poem:

Seek for the Sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells;
There shall be counsels taken
Stronger than Morgul-spells.
There shall be shown a token
That Doom is near at hand,
For Isildur's Bane shall waken,
And the Halfling forth shall stand.

Faramir was eager to go and seek counsel from Elrond, but Boromir feared the journey would be dangerous, so he insisted that he should go, as the elder brother.
Gimli: came with his father, Glin, and some other Dwarves from Erebor to join the council. I believe Elrond sent word for them to come, but I'm not entirely sure why. Anyone else know about this?

Vana

Secret Suzy

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 1246

(17/01/2004 03:44:55)

About why Gimli and the other dwarves came to Rivendell:
As far as I remember they came because they had been approached by messengers of Mordor (nazgls??) for some time, asking them to locate the one ring and tell them about Hobbits and generally help Mordor or be considered an enemy. In return for news about this hobbit they would get the three rings, that the dwarves once possessed, back. They tried their best to postpone things but the time was running out and the messengers grew impatient. They went to Rivendell to try and warn Bilbo that the enemy was seeking him and to see Elrond and ask for advice about the shadows of war starting to gather at their borders.

So even if they all came without being summoned it is a chain of events all affected and initiated by the shadow of Mordor growing and looking for the ring.

Hope that helped! And please feel free to correct me, anyone, because I'm telling from memory here.
/Suzy

elentari vana

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 1937

(02/02/2004 02:07:24)

noncommittal

Thanks, Suzy. That clears that up nicely

I actually have another question. Is there anyone out there who owns a copy of Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien and is familiar with the story of the derivations of Elros' and Elrond's names? I'd like to know if Tolkien ever mentioned their childhood names (before the waterfall/cave episode and all that), and if so, what they were. (I don't have Letters myself. I saw the reference on the Encyclopedia of Arda and was rather intrigued . .

)

Vana

Unregistered(d)

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 0

(04/02/2004 02:27:20)

I have a stupid question, I apologize in advance.

What version of elvish is spoken in Imladris?

elentari vana

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 1937

(04/02/2004 22:14:24)

noncommittal

The short answer is Sindarin. Hope that helps.

Vana

P.S. There are no stupid questions . . just stupid answers

Alcbelethiel

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 5255

(13/03/2004 00:33:36)

Bloomite

I'm curious about the flowers Athelas and Simbelmne. Do you know which flowers these are in the real life? They look like a mix of edelweiss and chickweed wintergreen!

elentari vana

Re: FAQ

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Posts: 1937

(13/03/2004 01:52:50)

noncommittal

Wow

This is an interesting question. I've never come across anything about the real-life basis for these plants, so this is my thinking:

I tend to associate athelas with the thyme family because of the way Aragorn used it to heal the wounded, with the bruising of a leaf and putting it into the water, releasing the "healthful" smell (or whatever it was Sam said about it).

Simbelmyne ("Ever-mind") might be some kind of variation of the forget-me-not, since the names are so similar. I've never really thought about it, though.

Vana

"Fanor," said Nienna. "If anyone ever needed counseling, you do. Come with me back to Mandos, and we will attempt to cure you of your psychoses and neuroses."

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